Trump Org Criminal Probe Intensifies

Jill’s Transcript

VOSSOUGHIAN: It`s a live case.

So, Jill Wine-Banks, at this point, does it seem as if Calamari Jr. is the low-hanging fruit? And at what point do we get the fruit on top of the tree?

(LAUGHTER)

JILL WINE-BANKS, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Well, of course, the top of the tree to me is Donald Trump. And that will take more evidence than probably Calamari Jr. has. We don`t know how directly he is connected to knowledge of Donald Trump.

So we will have to wait and see on that. But I think that Danya is absolutely correct that this is a live case, that I think they will be hoping to wrap it up while Vance is still the district attorney. He is not running for re -- he didn`t run for reelection. There is a new district attorney who will start in December.

And they have spent a lot of resources going to the Supreme Court twice to get the tax returns of Donald Trump. They have already indicted Weisselberg the CFO. It is certainly possible that they will now indict the COO, who is Calamari Sr. And I think that there`s a lot going on.

When you look at the case, people have said, oh, it`s just a benefits case, fringe benefits that weren`t reported.

VOSSOUGHIAN: Yes.

WINE-BANKS: It isn`t that. This is a 15-year fraud. It`s a conspiracy. It`s double bookkeeping. They kept fraudulent books.

So it`s much more than that. And everybody says, including -- you had Barbara Res commenting there. And she has always said nothing happens at Trump Organization that Donald Trump didn`t know about. So the chances are, he knew what was going on. He wrote the checks for Weisselberg children`s or grandchildren`s tuition.

So he certainly knew about that. And that`s why we have a big case going.

VOSSOUGHIAN: Aside from calling Calamari Jr. testifying before a grand jury, what leads you to believe that Calamari Sr. could feasibly be indicted in the coming months ahead of Cy Vance`s retirement?

WINE-BANKS: The evidence that we have seen so far suggests that he got the same apartment and car benefits that Weisselberg got and reported them in the same way.

We don`t know that yet. I haven`t seen his tax returns. I don`t know how he reported it. I don`t know how the company accounted for it. I know that they fraudulently accounted for Weisselberg`s I will call them fringe benefits, even though I have just said it`s much more than a fringe benefits case.

So it would seem likely that he is a target. And the fact that he wasn`t subpoenaed to testify is because, in New York, they have a very strange rule that isn`t common. And that is, if you testified before the grand jury, you are automatically immunized and cannot be prosecuted for anything you testify about.

So you don`t want to put anyone before the grand jury that you think you might indict. And so the fact that the senior Calamari wasn`t put before the grand jury, even though he likely, as COO, has much more knowledge, makes me believe that he is a target.